Ftp

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  • Last Post 15 October 2020
Anthony Mellor posted this 11 October 2020

How do I ftp to my Apollo?

My network scanner needs this protocol for its destination.

thanks

anthony

 

my original text:

"My network printer needs this protocol for its destination."

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R P posted this 13 October 2020

Hi Anthony,

The Apollo does not support ftp.

If you need to print files, you will have to ftp from a computer, not the Apollo. You can access files on the Apollo by using an SMB mount to the Apollo IP (available from the app) and using the login credentials for the Apollo.

Anthony Mellor posted this 13 October 2020

oh dear. Thank you for giving me clarity.

I bought the device to save scans from my multi function printer scanner etc. 

So I can't use it without FTP. Never occurred to me a network file storage device would not have File Transfer Protocol.

C'est la vie I guess. The whole point was NOT to have to include using a computer.

Anyone want a redundant Apollo ? ;-)

Anyway, thanks again for educating me.  My fault making assumptions.

All the best - Anthony

 

p.s. apologies, where I wrote "network printer" I should have said "network scanner" ; it misled you, but I am 98% sure it doesn't change the scenario, no FTP access to Apollo from .. anywhere.

 

R P posted this 14 October 2020

So I can't use it without FTP. Never occurred to me a network file storage device would not have File Transfer Protocol.

The Apollo is not network storage, it's cloud storage, you can upload and download files from the internet, unlike network storage.

And it's probably true that if your scanner supports 'scan to ftp' that it also supports 'scan to smb'. So you still may be able to use it as a scan target.

Ftp is an ancient unsecure protocol that is not widely supported nowadays.

Anthony Mellor posted this 15 October 2020

Oh no it isn't ;-)

It is storage on my network. It is on my LAN not on the WAN, even if accessible from the WAN.

As such it is in the first instance NAS, Network Attached Storage.

Only a youngster would call FTP "ancient". I am 64 and FTP was invented yesterday as far as I am concerned as was the PC.

When I started out there was no such thing as using computers. It was all handwritten. 

So your device should carry an ageist warning!

All that said and rectified. No my BROTHER MFC-9840CDW does NOT support SMB.

I have experimented and managed to fudge copies to Apollo by creating an Apollo synchronised folder inside a Tresorit (proper cloud storage) folder to which a different scanner scans images (etc). 

However, the deepest problem with Apollo is requiring the use of devices between the scanner and the Apollo destination. This means solutions for family members cannot be created that do not require support from this here dynosaur (me). 

So my 90 year old dad who knows nothing of these matters and my 4 year old grand daughter who expects everything to simply work (and if not it is classed as "broken'), are excluded. Which age range are you aimed at exactly? 

I bet you it's twenty-somethings or thereabouts.  

As you can see, I would like to have had a word with your designers before this thing was inflicted on us. 

Maybe you can fix the firmware please? It is after all merely a design choice based on faulty assumptions about the user profile. 

If you really must you can call FTP legacy protocol but port 22 is still assigned to it, though I prefer to change that when using FTP.

I have for many years been uploading and downloading via the internet to all my network devices, both NAS and DAS (ironically the 8 bay Promise R8s etc which I love to bits.).

I saw the Apollo as a defence against Ransom ware, which I guess it still is via time machine, depending on exactly how that is mounted. The syncronise folder feature is awful because it creates a hierarchy of folders (even worse than dropbox and sync.com ). 

In short: please include FTP in the next firmware update to include all of us you have excluded. 

Please?

Kindest regards

Anthony 

 

 

R P posted this 15 October 2020

Hi Anthony,

The Apollo Cloud is cleary named and labeled as cloud storage.

  • The ultimate storage device. Apollo Cloud is a powerful personal cloud storage device giving you access to all of your content from anywhere using the Apollo Cloud App.

It's function is to share files across the internet rather than locally.

Nowhere in the documentation or collateral is ftp mentioned.

The first ftp RFC (RFC 114) was published in 1971. Firefox and Chrome no longer support ftp. Apple has depricated support and although there is still some low-level support, Apple says don't use ftp.

  • https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/97469
  • IMPORTANT Apple’s official position on FTP is:

  • Certain FTP APIs have been deprecated, and you should avoid using deprecated APIs.

  • Apple has been slowly removing FTP support from the user-facing parts of our system. The most recent example of this is that we removed the ftp command-line tool in macOS 10.13.

  • You should avoid the FTP protocol and look to adopt more modern alternatives.

Many things over the years have been depricated then support removed. Apple introduced AFP in the late 1980s. Today AFP is depricated and it has not been updated for about 7 years. Eventually it will go the way of ftp support in macOS.

Network security protocols have also lost support. TLS1.0 was introduced in 1999, but modern browsers had removed support it. But most browsers that had disabled support for TLS1.0 and 1.1 temporarily added support back due to Covoid 19 because a lot of government support sites still used it.

But support is disappearing fast and eventually no updated browser will support it.

BTW, ftp uses port 21, port 22 is used by ssh (and also sftp and scp).

Now where did I leave my 300 baud modem?

EDIT: I have filed an enhancement request for ftp support.

Anthony Mellor posted this 15 October 2020

Thank you for taking the time to present all that info. Much appreciated.

I have yet to fully inwardly digest it but have the following immediate observations.

Labelling something as "cloud storage" does not make it cloud storage, nor does it make it not Network Attached Storage. In fact cloud storage is commonly known as "someone else's computer", so not mine - assuming no colocation is involved.

To share files across the internet it still has to be populated from local storage of some sort, which is what has been blocked here.

Sure, things get deprecated and removed and internet facing FTP has long been not such a good idea. 

However, I am speaking of hardware investment behind my firewall where no security at all is required or desired. You will find NO open ports at my WAN interface. 

I connected to CERN using 300 baud (edit: might have been 1200 in fact) shortly after Mr Berners Less installed the initial www ideas.

Reinvented has been used to ex communicate my hardware which I will one day replace when I am good and ready 

Browser support for FTP is not relevant to me. Transferring files between devices (NOT computers) on my LAN (not WAN) is relevant. Apple no longer supporting FTP is of no concern, unless I have to use that because Apollo is crippled in that regard. 

So far I haven't been able to access my content from Apollo at all because it remains unpopulated with anything of use unless I put it there from a computer. I do very much like the off site backup offering (Apollo to Apollo) though I note it requires (prefers) initial population locally not using the cloud (the internet) (which is fair enough but is recognising this IS a local network attached device. 

"Nowhere in the documentation or collateral is ftp mentioned."

Yes exactly. IT SHOULD. It should make it crystal clear FTP is NOT supported instead of leaving it for me to find I bought a brick in this regard. Bear in mind I am not alone in this, google shows others wondering where is the FTP access. 

I was hoping to facilitate all sort with these devices and bought this smaller one as a prototype. I'd be real unhappy if I had dived in and bought a pair of the bigger ones which was my initial temptation.

Reinvented? I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. I can see it looks great, but it needs to work with equipment that has not been "reinvented". 

Please give us FTP in the next firmware update. By all means add caveats, bury it deep, because otherwise by the time I have a scanner that can talk to the Apollo, it (the Apollo) will be obsolete. So now I have to remain with my little (and old) Western Digital network attached storage (ie a hard disk) device, Two terrabytes I can scan to without trouble.

I just had hoped I could have all the benefits of the Apollo with family access nicely presented etc AND populate it from my current network devices other than computers - which are mostly Macs and the odd PC (given all PCs are odd). 

I suppose I could integrate the Apollo with a miniature computer, maybe a Pie left in kiosk mode to support the lacking Apollo. FTP to Pie, Apollo Sync from there - but it's messy and should not be necessary especially for a reinvented device.

Isn't a point of cloud connectivity being able to connect direct to devices without being forced to babysit a computer? Computers ALWAYS require a key to be pressed when least expected. So one returns home after three weeks to find the server has been saying "press enter" for 14 days. 

What devices can scan direct to Apollo? With no requirement for a computer? I mean specifically, not generically, please?

Imagine the joy of a 1200 baud upgrade, never mind when we got 9600 and then 115k!

Assuming we all have the latest tech seems to me a weakness of vision. 

Regards

Anthony

 

I have actually read it all now, just not followed the links yet.

I can't recall if 300 ever existed.

 

 

R P posted this 15 October 2020

Labelling something as "cloud storage" does not make it cloud storage, nor does it make it not Network Attached Storage. In fact cloud storage is commonly known as "someone else's computer", so not mine - assuming no colocation is involved.

That's why it's labeled personal cloud storage, you host your own cloud as it were.

  • The ultimate storage device. Apollo Cloud is a powerful personal cloud storage device giving you access to all of your content from anywhere using the Apollo Cloud App.

I can't recall if 300 ever existed.

The first commercial modem was 300 baud.

  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_103_modem

But even in the days of 1200 baud modems, with noisy phone lines they would fall back to 600 baud or 300 baud.

  • Imagine the joy of a 1200 baud upgrade, never mind when we got 9600 and then 115k!

You can't get 115k through a phone line, they max out at about 52k. But you can connect to an external modem at 115200 bps.

Anthony Mellor posted this 15 October 2020

Yes, funnily enough, I was thinking it should have some qualifier like "personal or "private". 

however, without FTP I beg to differ about it being powerful. In my experience of it, it is crippled and currently for me pretty much brick-like.

This is the consequence of moving ahead too fast for your markets and leaving behind what you may call legacy systems. 

We should not have to examine every detail of a specification for a NAS device (which it is whatever you may say, it is network attached and it stores data). I've been googling a bit and I can see the moves to "personal cloud" ideas, presumably in recognition of people not wanting their data to be outside their own control; fair enough. 

Thus far in my view, these personal cloud storage devices are no more than the existing hardware devices with enhanced use-case firmware. Indeed an attempt to make the whole genre more accessible and secure (safe) for users, that attempt has to be applauded, it would save me loads of time instead of just having cost me two days to create a working solution.

I have been doing these "personal cloud" functions for years with various NAS drives, Synology, Qnap, Western Digital all, or mostly, with user-focused apps supplied by the manufacturers. Granted these new devices have it burned into their firmware, which just means there is better confidence that it will all work - and maybe it has been tested, unlike much of the stuff out there. And Promise kit is always excellent as regards working as documented. 

So, about that documentation, please ask for the FTP to be reinstated so I can use my Apollo. I have tried every which way to integrate it and without inserting a computer into the process it cannot be done. That is not acceptable being inherently unreliable (because of the computer, not the Apollo).

I am of course disappointed I can't use this gadget, but without seamless population from my data capture device (scanner), it simply doesn't work for me, literally.

Maybe one day when my hardware is upgraded, if you still then support your Apollos, which I kind of doubt given your too fast advancement and expectation we do the same regardless of cost - that's why you (should) support legacy matters, it is a matter of cost to the customer. I think perhaps you are accustomed to wealthier markets (the creative industry eg) and these Apollos look far more "retail" to me, which is nice too have the quality, but not so much the attitude to legacy equipment - which is not that old.

My 1200 modem was in my $12,000 (GBP in fact) Compaq Portable 386 (with co processor and10 MB HDD) ("lunch box" not the "1984 green screen heavable" I had earlier ) as an optional extra, used for bank data extraction back in 1988 and banks try to tell us how up to date they are offering it in the present. Forgive me if I am a bit cynical about marketing hype like "personal cloud". 

I can quite imagine the fallback to 300 etc, connections were an opportunity to get a cup of tea - and drink it while listening to the handshake music et al.

Was it 10mb HDD? Pretty sure it was. No such thing as a gig back then. I doubt anyone knew what a TB might be.

I have always been able to access all my content from anywhere. The problem is home internet upload speeds, so proper cloud space becomes useful; fibre may resolve that when everyone has it.

So, FTP please, make it an optional add-on with health warnings or whatever floats your boat.  Denying it to those of us who want it makes no sense at all and completely fails to meet (my and others) expectations.  

and saying it's not mentioned in the docs really is taking the biscuit. 

I'd be real upset if my new car had no wheels and the excuse was the brochure does not mention it. 

Thank you again for engaging with me. 

Regards

Anthony

 

 p.s. yes the 115k was Laplink parallel port connections, not modems.

 

 

 

 

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